SURVEILLANCE HEADACHES — Senate Finance Committee Chair Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has spent most of his congressional career focused on privacy and surveillance issues — even before most people understood how much data and information new technologies are capable of collecting about Americans. The past month has brought many of those issues to the forefront for privacy advocates like Wyden: Senate Judiciary lawmakers advanced the EARN IT Act, which advocates worry will dissuade online platforms from using encryption. The IRS dropped ID.me's facial recognition tool after lawmaker and advocate scrutiny. And Wyden, along with Sen. Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.), uncovered another CIA mass surveillance program. MC caught up Thursday with Wyden about how he's mobilizing around each of these issues. This interview has been edited for length and clarity. MC: Now that the Senate Judiciary Committee has advanced the EARN IT Act, are you hearing from colleagues who are concerned about the impact the bill can have on encrypted services? Wyden : I've heard from a number of colleagues who think this is another one of those "feel-good" kind of ideas that doesn't do what's needed, which in this case is protect children from these monsters who exploit them in pictures and videos. What I'm going to do is oppose this with everything I've got. Look there's a choice: Do you want to do something effective, which is make sure you have the resources on the ground to fight these monsters? Or do you want to go along with something that sounds good, feels good and say you're doing something? MC: Switching gears to the CIA mass surveillance program that you and Sen. Heinrich uncovered earlier this month. What has the response been like since you released that information, and what comes next? Wyden : The standard approach for the agencies when they know that you're making a valid point is just to say as little as possible and hope that it will go away. We're not going to let it go away. I know that [Executive Order] 12333 is not something most people are talking about in coffee shops across the country, but we're going to stay focused on it because we continue to believe that security and liberty aren't mutually exclusive. We'll have more to say, but we're already working on follow-up questions [to this month's letter]. This is not for the faint hearted, let us have some time. MC: And with regard to the IRS's ID.me contract, what other efforts are you and your colleagues taking to halt other government agencies from working with the company? Wyden: We just talked about it this morning. I want to work with Sen. Mike Crapo (R-Idaho), the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, to extend the IRS policy to other agencies and take the lead. I'm hopeful we can have bipartisan support on it. MC: Congress hasn't always been quick to take up surveillance or encryption concerns. What makes this time different? Wyden: This continues to evolve. It used to be because there were a whole host of areas where technology was simply incapable of intruding into people's personal lives. Now, we've seen that those times have changed, and it is capable of knowing virtually everything about everybody. If anything, the technologies have made these issues much more relevant to people.
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