What Fox News' moderators wish they asked at the GOP debate

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Aug 25, 2023 View in browser   By Ryan Lizza, Rachael Bade and Eugene Daniels Presented by With help from Eli Okun and Garrett Ross While there was a lot on the line for the eight GOP candidates at the Milwaukee debate on Wednesday night, consider the pressure that Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum faced. | Matt Rourke/AP Photo Listen to this week's episode of Deep Dive DRIVING THE DAY BOOKED — The mug shot seen around the world: This booking photo provided by Fulton County Sheriff's Office, shows former President Donald Trump on Aug. 24, 2023, after he surrendered and was booked at the Fulton County Jail in Atlanta. | Fulton County Sheriff’s Office via AP DONALD J. TRUMP, prisoner number P01135809 at Georgia’s Fulton County Jail, used the occasion of his fourth arrest on criminal charges this year — this time, for racketeering — to return to X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, where he posted his first mug shot and a fundraising link. Trump was in and out of jail in 20 minutes, posted a $200,000 bond (by putting down 10% to a local bonding company, per CNN), and seemed to have under-reported his weight and exaggerated his height (at least since his last booking). Local officials had as much trouble describing his hair as the rest of us: Trump’s official booking called it “blonde or strawberry.” More from Kierra Frazier NEW JMART COLUMN — Sen. MARK WARNER sounds the alarm about the Virginia legislative elections, which could further strengthen the GOP in the state and boost Gov. GLENN YOUNGKIN, who still hasn’t ruled out a late entry into the presidential race: “Warner knows what sort of bounce Youngkin, who’s already receiving fawning coverage in the RUPERT MURDOCH press, would get from rich men north of Richmond by holding the state assembly and winning a majority in the senate of Virginia, a state that hasn’t been carried by a GOP presidential nominee for nearly two decades,” writes Jonathan Martin. “‘I just don’t get why this isn’t a higher priority for the DNC and the White House,’ said the senator of this fall’s legislative races in the Old Dominion. Warner told me that he and Senator TIM KAINE (D-Va.) have both telephoned JENNIFER O’MALLEY DILLON, [President JOE] BIDEN’s top political aide, and asked for additional DNC money for Virginia. The White House has signed off on some and, I’m told, there will be more dollars sent to Richmond this fall. ‘We just need a sense of urgency,’ said Warner, who has also spoken to White House Chief of Staff JEFF ZIENTS … “This is personal for Warner, who’s up for re-election in 2026, suffered a near-death political experience the last time there was a second-term Democrat in the White House and has no appetite to run against an emboldened and just-departed governor. … “Those who know Youngkin say it’s only a matter of when, that he ran for governor to run for president.” Read the full story here THE PLAYBOOK INTERVIEW: BRET BAIER AND MARTHA MacCALLUM — While there was a lot on the line for the eight GOP candidates at the Milwaukee debate on Wednesday night, consider the pressure that Baier and MacCallum faced: First there was Trump, who refused to participate and lashed out at Fox and its talent, including Baier, on social media. Then there was TUCKER CARLSON, McCallum and Baier’s former star colleague who is in messy litigation with the network, and who nabbed Trump for himself and counter-programmed the evening with an interview that aired simultaneously. Then there is Rupert Murdoch, whose shadow hovered over the coverage. In the days before the debate, there were new reports that the Fox News magnate is trying to push Youngkin into the 2024 race. If that isn’t enough, on the eve of the debate, several candidates who didn’t qualify to be on stage threw a fit and threatened a lawsuit. Add to all of that the challenges of being in the crosshairs of both the candidates — who are primed to pounce on moderators if it serves their political interests — and the boisterous crowd of partisans who at any moment might turn on the two people asking difficult questions. To find out what it was like behind the scenes at the Fox News debate, we gathered over Zoom with Bret and Martha yesterday for an hour of debate post-mortem. You can listen to the full conversation on this week’s episode of the Playbook Deep Dive podcast. What follows are some key excerpts. On the moment that stuck out for each of them: MacCallum: “[T]he moment that we asked them to raise their hand if they would still support the former president if indeed he were indicted. … And when you look back at it — and I actually just rewatched it a moment ago — it’s interesting because the right-hand side of the room, their hands went up pretty quickly. And RON DeSANTIS sort of glanced over at them and then raised his hand. … Baier: “I agree with Martha: It was sort of like the wave in a stadium. … I think that was my moment, too. … [DeSantis] clearly didn’t want to talk about the former president, and, to that point, started turning it and, you know, ripping on us for talking about the former president.” On reminding DeSantis that he trails Trump by 30-40 points in most polls: Baier: “I kind of had that moment, and wasn’t thinking I was smacking him; I was just telling him: ‘This is a legitimate line of questioning. This is a big part of this election.’” On MIKE PENCE’s approach: Baier: “Vice President Pence was super aggressive. I don’t know whether he had a lot of coffee or what his deal was, but he showed up ready to interrupt … MacCallum: “He, I think, may have been thinking: ‘I’m the former vice president. I have a different status on this stage, and I am going to take my time and I’m going to show my gravitas and I’m going to make sure that people hear what I have to say here tonight.’ … You could definitely feel him asserting himself — that he was sort of, ‘I’m on a different level here than the rest of you on the stage.’” Questions they wish they asked, but didn’t: Baier: “We had a whole bunch. … MacCallum: “Yeah, we had a lot more questions on education, school choice, some of those issues, and in some cases we let them go because one of the candidates had brought them up and they had sort of battled it out over it on their own. I think we could have gone with a few more foreign policy questions for VIVEK RAMASWAMY based on the things that he’s been saying lately about 9/11 and Taiwan … but NIKKI HALEY really went at him and gave this litany of the things that he had been talking about. So in some cases … you’re letting something go because the subject has already been grappled with. I wish that there had been a moment to say to Ron DeSantis: Why the half-hearted hand-raise there [when asked whether they’d support a criminally indicted Trump as the nominee]? But what happened was [CHRIS] CHRISTIE was, like, throwing his finger halfway up … and that got the attention and I was asking him about that. … Baier: “I agree, Martha. I think that was the moment that I wish that we went back … I would have loved to have pointed that out. … Vivek Ramaswamy said ‘President Trump is the best president of the 21st century.’ And I wanted to say, ‘Well, then why are you running against him?’ … I had a question about Obamacare and Republicans [being] unable to find a solution for health care that I kind of wanted to get to. But again, there were all these questions: We had [questions on] AI regulations, we had more foreign policy, China … Iran. And you suddenly realize that the clock ticks very fast.” Why they opened the debate with OLIVER ANTHONY’s ‘Rich Men North of Richmond’: MacCallum: “Well, we were talking about what people are feeling in the country, and trying to find a way to demonstrate that feeling. We talk to voters all the time — people talking about inflation, people talking about the feeling that they can’t get ahead, saying that their kids have trouble buying their first home. … We were talking about that song and thinking about the chord that it was striking in the country and then batting it around. … We all talked about it and thought it would be a really good way to kind of ground the evening as we were just getting started to play it for them and have the camera pan across their faces and see what their reaction was to the song. … I would have liked the candidates to have a little more personal response to it. … Baier: “We said, ‘I wonder if … he’ll let us use the song.’ … We tracked him down, and we were kind of operating like, ‘Well … I guess we could read the lyrics, [but it] just won’t be the same.’ And we didn’t find out until two days before the debate that we got approval.” How they prepared for the possibility that Trump might participate: Baier: ”We did shift [our questions], but we also kept the pile of Trump questions because you never knew that maybe that last day he just shows up in Milwaukee and says, ‘I want to get on that stage.’ … MacCallum: “I think some of the questions would not have changed … most of them really would not have changed. And I think even the … ‘Would you still support the candidate,’ [if] the [former] president here in the middle of the stage is indicted? [It] would have been interesting to watch him. Obviously, he would have raised his own hand for that. But ‘Do you think Mike Pence did the right thing’? I think that would have been a pretty interesting moment as well.” On the in-person audience: Baier: “When they were booing and Chris Christie couldn’t talk, that’s the time that we both turned around to the audience. And at that point, I did feel like the dad driving the station wagon going, ‘You guys keep yelling, I’m going to turn this car around.’” On the UFO question: Baier: “I was a proponent of this question. … When JOHN KIRBY comes out in the White House and says these things are interrupting military training, and … it's not, like, the lead story, I actually think that’s fascinating. … I was planning to ask it, but we had changed so many puzzle pieces that it fell to Martha to ask. And so she got the New Jersey pushback from Christie.” Happy Friday. Thanks for reading Playbook. Drop us a line with your favorite Trump mug shot meme: Rachael Bade, Eugene Daniels, Ryan Lizza.   A message from The American Petroleum Institute (API): How Are Gas Prices Determined? The biggest factor in what Americans pay at the pump is the price of crude oil. Because of this, changes in the retail price of gasoline typically track changes in global oil prices. Oil prices are impacted by geopolitics, supply and demand fundamentals, inventories, seasonality, and market expectations. The Biden administration should support continued growth in American oil to boost supply and put downward pressure on prices. Fuel up on facts.   WHAT JAY POWELL IS READING — LARRY SUMMERS writes for WaPo ahead of Powell’s Jackson Hole address today: “The Fed must stay focused on inflation” HOW IT’S PLAYING — A new POLITICO Magazine/Ipsos poll provides some bad news for Trump: “Even as he remains the clear frontrunner for the Republican nomination, the cascading indictments are likely to take a toll on his general election prospects,” Ankush Khardori writes for POLITICO Magazine this morning. THE NEW CAMPAIGN TRAIL — “Influencers, Red Flag Videos and Jamaal Bowman ‘Swag’: Inside the Booming TikTok Political Industrial Complex,” by Nancy Scola for POLITICO Magazine: “These strategists aren’t turning to TikTok just for brand-building, messaging and mobilizing on behalf of candidates and causes, but for establishing trust and combatting disinformation, which have proven to be particular challenges in connecting with these voters in recent years. But TikTok is also in jeopardy.” AND THE WINNER IS — In the POLITICO debate bingo contest, RUTH SCHOONOVER in Texas was the first person to win bingo and post a screenshot of it on social media. Congrats, Ruth! You’ve got some POLITICO swag coming your way.   A message from The American Petroleum Institute (API): Fuel Up on Facts. The biggest factor in what Americans pay for gasoline is the price of crude oil. When crude oil supply can’t meet demand, pump prices can rise. Washington policymakers should support continued growth in American oil production to help boost global supply and put downward pressure on prices.   BIDEN’S FRIDAY: The president has nothing on his public schedule. VP KAMALA HARRIS’ FRIDAY: 2 p.m.: The vice president and second gentleman DOUG EMHOFF will welcome the Las Vegas Aces to the White House to celebrate their 2022 WNBA Championship. THE HOUSE and THE SENATE are out.   GROWING IN THE GOLDEN STATE: POLITICO California is growing, reinforcing our role as the indispensable insider source for reporting on politics, policy and power. From the corridors of power in Sacramento and Los Angeles to the players and innovation hubs in Silicon Valley, we're your go-to for navigating the political landscape across the state. Exclusive scoops, essential daily newsletters, unmatched policy reporting and insights — POLITICO California is your key to unlocking Golden State politics. LEARN MORE.     PLAYBOOK READS 2024 WATCH Journalists cover the first Republican presidential debate of the 2024 election cycle at Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee, Wis. on Aug. 23, 2023. | Francis Chung/POLITICO RATINGS RECAP — Fox News’ numbers for the first GOP debate are in: about 12.8 million viewers tuned in to see the eight candidates square off on Wednesday night, per Nielsen. The context: “That was slightly better than another Fox News Republican primary debate that Trump also had skipped during the 2016 cycle, which had drawn more than 12 million viewers,” WSJ’s Amol Sharma and Isabella Simonetti write. “It was the highest non-sports rating on cable this year, the network said.” The counter-programming: Meanwhile, Trump’s interview with Carlson on X drew more than 236 million “impressions” — a largely meaningless and imprecise statistic, but one that represents Carlson’s highest pull on the platform thus far. A LINE HALEY WILL LIKE — Nikki Haley “raised more online in the last 24 hours than on any day since the campaign started,” report WaPo’s Maeve Reston, Hannah Knowles, Dylan Wells and Marianne LeVine. A LINE DeSANTIS WON’T LIKE — Less than 24 hours removed from the spotlight of the debate stage, DeSantis was right back on the road yesterday evening, campaigning in Iowa. Months ago, many may have thought this would be the moment DeSantis set himself apart from the crowd of contenders coming off a strong debate performance. But it wasn’t so. “No longer Trump vs. DeSantis, the Republican primary is quickly reverting to Trump vs. everyone else,” our colleagues Sally Goldenberg and Kimberly Leonard write from Dyersville, Iowa. The DeSantis world spin: “The DeSantis team had insisted before the debate that the Florida governor would take the brunt of attacks on stage, arguing he’s the strongest contender to Trump. After the face off, his staff pivoted, saying he accomplished the goal of keeping donors satisfied.” TOP-ED — KELLYANNE CONWAY and MARJORIE DANNENFELSER echo RNC Chair RONNA McDANIEL’s assessment of the first GOP debate for WaPo: “If they want to win, Republicans need to go on offense on abortion” THE NEXT CONTEST — Attention will now turn to the next stage show, set to be held on Wednesday, Sept. 27 at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute in Simi Valley, Calif. Reminder: The candidate criteria to appear at the next debate ramps up — especially the polling requirements — which will most likely mean the field of participants shrinks. So far, DeSantis, Pence, Ramaswamy, Haley, Scott and Christie have qualified. Read more from Kierra Frazier  TRUMP CARDS OVERNIGHT — “According to Fulton County Jail records, ROBERT CHEELEY, JEFFREY CLARK, MISTY HAMPTON (also known as EMILY MISTY HAYES), MICHAEL ROMAN and SHAWN STILL surrendered early Friday,” reports WSBTV. “The five were named in an indictment accusing former President Donald Trump and 18 of his allies of conspiring to overturn the 2020 election in Georgia. … According to jail records, the only defendants who have not surrendered at the jail are STEPHEN LEE and TREVIAN KUTTI. The deadline to turn themselves in is Friday at noon.” ONE DIRECTION — “Co-defendant in Georgia says false electors met at Trump’s ‘direction,’” by Kyle Cheney   A message from The American Petroleum Institute (API): Policy matters: To help Americans at the fuel pump, Washington must support U.S. oil production.   POLICY CORNER FOR YOUR RADAR — “Feds accuse SpaceX of discrimination against asylum-seekers and refugees,” by Josh Gerstein AMERICA AND THE WORLD MORE PRIGOZHIN FALLOUT — “U.S., Europe officials: Prigozhin’s death strengthens Putin, for now,” by Nahal Toosi, Lili Bayer and Alexander Ward TRAINING DAY — “U.S. will start training Ukrainian pilots on F-16s at air base in Arizona,” by AP’s Ellen Knickmeyer BEYOND THE BELTWAY WAR OF THE WORDS — “Backers blast approved ballot language for Ohio’s fall abortion amendment as misleading,” by AP’s Julie Carry Smyth: “Key among opponents’ objections is language developed by Republican Secretary of State FRANK LaROSE, an abortion opponent, amid warnings the language could face a legal challenge even before the proposal goes before Ohio voters in November. Among the new language, the word ‘fetus’ in the Democrats’ proposal was changed to ‘unborn child’ in the ballot measure.” EMPIRE STATE OF MIND — New York Gov. KATHY HOCHUL is taking Biden to task over the migrant surge in the Empire State, slamming the White House for not doing more to address the situation and urging it to expedite work permits and increase federal aid, Katelyn Cordero reports from Albany, N.Y. MEGATREND — “Mortgage Rates Hit 7.23%, Highest Since 2001,” by WSJ’s Ben Eisen and Gina Heeb TV TONIGHT — PBS’ “Washington Week”: Daniella Diaz, Domenico Montanaro, Toluse Olorunnipa and Todd Zwillich. SUNDAY SO FAR … ABC “This Week”: Chris Christie … Cedric Richmond … Leana Wen. Panel: Ret. Col. Steve Ganyard and Julia Ioffe. Panel: Donna Brazile, Sarah Isgur, Charles Lane and Patricia Murphy. CBS “Face the Nation”: Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.) … Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) … Chris Christie … Larry Hogan … Fiona Hill. FOX “Fox News Sunday”: Joe Lieberman … Jennifer Griffin. Panel: Francesca Chambers, Josh Holmes, Penny Nance and Juan Williams. NBC “Meet the Press”: Vivek Ramaswamy … Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). Panel: Pat McCrory, Markos Moulitsas, Stephanie Murphy and Danielle Pletka. MSNBC “Inside with Jen Psaki”: New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu.   SUBSCRIBE TO CALIFORNIA CLIMATE: Climate change isn’t just about the weather. It's also about how we do business and create new policies, especially in California. So we have something cool for you: A brand-new California Climate newsletter. It's not just climate or science chat, it's your daily cheat sheet to understanding how the legislative landscape around climate change is shaking up industries across the Golden State. Subscribe now to California Climate to keep up with the changes.     PLAYBOOKERS Ruth Bader Ginsburg will be honored with a USPS stamp in October. TRANSITION — Anna Brichacek is now campaign manager for Brian Williams’ Democratic Texas congressional campaign. She most recently was campaign manager for Liz Mathis’ Iowa congressional campaign. WEDDING — Abby May, chief of staff for Rep. Wiley Nickel (D-N.C.), and David Minckiewicz, a software entrepreneur, got married Aug.12 outside of Flint, Mich. They met as undergrads at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. Pic HAPPY BIRTHDAY: Reps. Raul Ruiz (D-Calif.) and Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.) … Michael Cohen … Elsa Walsh … Tom Squitieri (7-0) … Zach Cikanek … Leigh Claffey of Shopify … Sara Sendek … Semafor’s Neal Rothschild … Mike Burns … Jeff Choudhry … POLITICO’s Gary Fineout, Briana Luster and Christian Oliver … Amanda Farnan … Dave Hoppe … Chris Kaumo of Synchronicity Strategies … PwC’s Michael O’Brien … Daniel Barash of SKDK … NBC’s Monica Alba … Mary Monica Palmer … former Sen. Robert Torricelli (D-N.J.) … Jamie Jackson … former Reps. Katie Hill (D-Calif.), Susan Brooks (R-Ind.), Elizabeth Esty (D-Conn.), John Faso (R-N.Y.) and Ron Barber (D-Ariz.) … Jack Coogan … Eli Lilly’s Antoinette Forbes ... Beth Burke … former Georgia Gov. Nathan Deal … John Lin of House Energy and Commerce … Will Stiers of Rep. Mike Rogers’ (R-Ala.) office … Ben Dietderich of Sen. Dan Sullivan’s (R-Alaska) office … Avery Jaffe (3-0) … Siemens’ Ryan Dalton … U.S. Embassy Zagreb’s Ashley Inman Did someone forward this email to you? Sign up here. Send Playbookers tips to playbook@politico.com or text us at 202-556-3307. Playbook couldn’t happen without our editor Mike DeBonis, deputy editor Zack Stanton and producers Setota Hailemariam and Bethany Irvine. Clarification: Wednesday’s Playbook has been updated to clarify that the reporters in attendance for a source meeting with Trump aides at a Milwaukee steakhouse paid their own tabs.   A message from The American Petroleum Institute (API): How Are Gas Prices Determined? The cost of crude oil is the No. 1 factor in determining retail fuel prices, accounting for nearly 60% of the cost of a gallon of gasoline. Oil companies do not set gasoline prices, nor do convenience store operators or retailers. Historically, fuel demand increases to higher levels during summer months – even with U.S. refineries operating at near record capacity to produce more fuels to meet demand. Increased demand for motor fuels during summer, layered on top of geopolitical events, affects global market fundamentals. Federal reviews have shown that these market forces of oil supply and demand affect changes in gasoline prices. New studies show that the U.S. holds more crude oil reserves than anywhere else in the world. Washington policies can add to global supply, and put downward pressure on crude costs and gasoline prices at the pump. Instead of dipping into America’s emergency reserves, Washington should increase access to areas – onshore and offshore across America – for safe, responsible development.     Follow us on Twitter Rachael Bade @rachaelmbade Eugene Daniels @EugeneDaniels2 Ryan Lizza @RyanLizza   Subscribe to the POLITICO Playbook family Playbook  |  Playbook PM  |  California Playbook  |  Florida Playbook  |  Illinois Playbook  |  Massachusetts Playbook  |  New Jersey Playbook  |  New York Playbook  |  Ottawa Playbook  |  Brussels Playbook  |  London Playbook View all our political and policy newsletters Follow us

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