Exclusive: Nightvale creators talk new podcast / 'Birds of Empire' debuts / What's next: Twitter & podcasting

Plus, YouTube to break down podcasting guide, AdLarge adds new True Crime podcast, and podcast event updates

Inside.com Part of   Network November 29, 2022

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Insiders!  I'm so excited to share my interview with "Welcome to Night Vale" creators Joseph Fink and Jeffrey Cranor in today's issue. It was hard to cut this one down, so excuse the length; I think there's a lot of gold in there, especially for audio drama creators. News can be found in the Quick Hits section.  Be well, Shreya

EXCLUSIVE: "WELCOME TO NIGHT VALE" TALK NEW PODCAST AND THE AUDIO FICTION GENRE (Part 1)  "Unlicensed" is a new Audible podcast from Joseph Fink and Jeffrey Cranor, creators of "Welcome to Night Vale," an audio drama that ran for 10 years and gave rise to a community of audio fiction listeners and creators. "Unlicensed" is a 10-part series telling the tale of Molly Hatch, who finds herself assisting PI Lou Rosen, who works out of a strip mall outside of L.A.   I had the pleasure of talking to Joseph and Jeffrey about how "Unlicensed" came to be, what we can expect to take away from it, their messages to budding creators in fiction, and their thoughts on big tech investment in podcasting.  This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.  Shreya Sharma (SS): What are the lessons from "Welcome to Night Vale" that you carried into "Unlicensed"? Jeffrey Cranor (JC): When we started "Welcome to Night Vale," we approached it from just a simple solo storytelling point of view and not because we believed we had any expertise in podcasting. Coming out of theater, that was just the type of storytelling we liked, and it worked well for us. We really enjoyed doing that in "Welcome to Night Vale." With "Unlicensed," with it having a narrator and two main characters to get their point of view, we were now able to use these longer-form storytelling methods rather than radio plays.  The longer-form storytelling, the monologues, allow for more immersion, more intimacy between the listener and the narrator. The format allows you to get into their head and, by extension, into their world. That was one of the top things that we took out of "Welcome to Night Vale" and into making "Unlicensed." SS: How was the idea of "Unlicensed" born?  Joseph Fink (JF): This has happened twice, where the idea has started with a voice before the story. The previous podcast I worked on, "Alice Isn't Dead," started because I really loved writing for the actor Jasika Nicole. So, I just started writing for her without knowing what the story would be. Similarly, I wanted to write something for Lusia and Molly because I thought they had really interesting voices that would work well together. Later we cast T (T.L.Thompson), who also has an incredible voice.  Then came the setting and the genre. It was different because a mystery is such a technical thing that we hadn't really tackled before. It requires a different way of thinking and seemed exciting for us. Once we tackled that, a lot of the story was built collaboratively.  SS: Besides intrigue and joy, what would you hope the listeners would take away from "Unlicensed"?  JC: A sense of connection. What I have always loved about podcasting, even to some extent radio, but more podcasting is that it can go anywhere with me. It's that deeper connection you get to somebody when you fall in love with the voices, the people, and the world that they're in. There's a binging that happens to that. Not in a crazy "listen to 18 episodes without sleeping" kind of way, but more that you get into the rhythm. You find yourself immersed in their world; you feel like you know them. I'm not trying to be parasocial here. I'm just saying that it's an intimacy that you get from podcasting that I think is hard to find in any other medium. So for "Unlicensed," I think the biggest takeaway I'm hoping for is a deep emotional connection. JF: Well, I hope it sticks with them in a way a good story sticks with you. I also hope that it gives people an appreciation of Los Angeles as it actually exists. A lot of people have an image of L.A. that is Hollywood and avocado toast, but the soul of L.A. lives in a lot of other places, and we have tried to capture that here.

EXCLUSIVE: "WELCOME TO NIGHT VALE" TALK NEW PODCAST AND THE AUDIO FICTION GENRE (Part 2)  SS: How do you begin crafting a compelling story, be it for your podcasts or books? What is the kick-off process like?  JF: For us, it starts with the characters. Almost everything we've written, we've started with the characters and then built the story out from there. "Unlicensed," in particular, started with the characters and the setup for the mystery itself: the idea that there is a teenage girl whose younger brother ran away and came home, but she's convinced that the boy who came home wasn't the boy who left.  JC: Working with Audible on this show also made a difference. Compared to Night Vale, where it was just me, Joseph, and Cecil in the beginning, "Unlicensed" had a five-person team that we could immediately start with. It started with Joseph and me, and we were able to bring in other people to help us craft that narrative. That made writing seamless and helped give a logical continuity to the story.  SS: What's one thing you'd like to say to fellow creators of audio fiction, especially the ones that are just starting out? JC: The number one thing I say to anybody who's trying to write or make audio fiction is to not overthink it. It is absolutely great when you've got a budget, an idea of who you want to work with, the story you want to tell, or the music you want to use. But there comes a certain point when you have to remember don't make it too complicated; don't make it too expensive. Especially if you're just starting out, the easier you can make it on yourself, the better. A fiction podcast has a lot of moving parts, so the easier you make it on yourself, the better, especially if you're just starting out. JF: To that, I'd also add: work with people that you enjoy working with. The truth is that the first few things you work on might not go anywhere commercially, and that's fine. If you make something with people you enjoy working with, then the worst-case scenario is that you make something cool with people you like. Whereas if you force yourself to work with people you don't like on something that you're not into, and it suddenly becomes a huge hit, now you're locked into working with those people on this thing you don't like. So, focus on finding a community.  SS: Change is on the horizon: we see bigger tech companies moving in and investing more in podcasting. How, if at all, does this impact audio fiction?  JF: The tech money moving into podcasting is not necessarily positive; it's bringing in a lot of people who don't respect the form but instead see it as the new way to make money. They seem to be throwing money in the hopes that some of it comes back. That results in shows that sound the same because they have no vision for the form. They end up making content that sounds similar to popular shows or is just not very good because it was made by people originally from other media who don't listen to podcasts. I think if you're gonna make something in a form, you have to start with an appreciation for and knowledge of that form. For instance, you can't make a TV show without having ever seen a TV show or liking TV. You need to understand what you're making.  JC: I think the byproduct of this has been a flooding of the market. In capitalism, you're looking for a way to strip-mine something, right? You're looking to get all of the gold out of California. Unlike 10 years ago when you could look at the charts to get a sense of what people like, it seems that those things are digitally altered now, thanks to the flooding. For someone starting a new fiction podcast, they really have to find their way into a community that will lift them up and support them because the general public has a hard time seeing anything coming out — unless you are with one of these large companies, you have a celebrity voice, and you can market the heck out of it.

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PODS ON THE BLOCK  "Birds of Empire" is a new podcast from QCODE. The audio fiction tells the tale of humanity returning to a life that resembles the myths, fables, and folklore from civilizations of the past. Here's an introduction to the show, and here's the first episode: "Azera – The Wolves."  "Mads World" is an ongoing show hosted by Maddy Carty. Carter went viral after she shared a Premier League footballer "catfishing experience." The comedy podcast delves into dating, relationships, and feminism in London.  Special episode: "The Amelia Project" is doing a fun audio advent calendar for 2022. The podcast is an episodic one that shares the stories of an agency that fakes clients' deaths and grants them new brand identities.

PODCAST EVENT UPDATES On Dec. 6, Squadcast is hosting a webinar titled "the simple template to making your podcast easy to find."  On Dec. 7, Sounds Profitable is hosting Safe & Sound, a webinar sharing survey results on brand safety and suitability across podcasts.  On Dec. 8, the BIPOC Podcast Creators are hosting a free webinar on "how to use partnerships to grow your podcast."

QUICK HITS HubSpot and Brandwatch partnered this year to survey over 1,000 individuals across the U.S. to better understand consumer purchasing habits, thoughts, and behaviors.* The winner of the Apple Podcasts Award for 2023 is "Slow Burn" for their latest season covering Roe v. Wade.  Earlier this month, Rachel Prisock of Realm wrote about how and why fiction podcasts are "the next big thing."  On Pod the North, Kattie Laur talks to Falen Johnson, a producer at CBC podcasts, on Indigenous storytelling.  True crime podcast "Murder with My Husband" signed with AdLarge for podcast sales.  The Podcast Host writes about what the "death of Twitter" means for podcasters. In a similar vein, James Cridland wrote about his experience so far on Mastodon.  Tech innovation is surging in education, finance, health care, and other industries. See what your competitors are building with Crowdbotics.* *This is sponsored content.

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This newsletter was curated by podcast geek and marketer, Shreya. She loves storytelling in all forms but podcasts are her favourite. Her favorite podcast genres are sci-fi, comedy, TTRPG, and a combination thereof. Previously a resident of Vancouver, she now lives in Dubai.  Follow her adventures on Twitter. Do you or anyone you know host an indie podcast? Hit reply to tell me about it. I might feature it on Pods On The Block!       Editor Aaron Crutchfield is based in the high desert of California. Over the last two decades, he has spent time writing and editing at various local newspapers and defense contractors in California. When he's not working, he can often be found looking at the latest memes with his kids or working on his 1962 and 1972 Fords.

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